We speak to Danish producer Signe Byrge Sørensen (double-Oscar nominated for The Act of Killing and The Look of Silence) who expands on issues touched on at a CPH:DOX Conference (see our story - CLICK HERE - ), held under Nordisk Film & TV Fond’s ‘Audiovisual Collaboration 2021’ industry meet up.

The next Town Hall session part of Audiovisual Collaborations 2021, will be held in Malmö, September 19 (17.30-19.00 CET) during Nordisk Panorama.

Sørensen’s recent productions include the Sundance winning documentaries Flee by Jonas Poher Rasmussen, President by Camilla Nielsson and CPH:DOX’s competition entry Our Memories Belong to Us by Rami Farah.
Sørensen's interview follows a talk with Axel Arnö, SVT's Commissioning Editor published on Friday.

Firstly, how have you been navigating the pandemic in 2020-21?
Signe Byrge Sørensen: The pandemic hasn’t stopped us as we had a lot of films in editing when it started. We’ve kept going with our projects, except for some US-based titles. One of them was delayed by more than a year, with extra costs. And since we do a lot of co-productions our post production work has been hugely affected on a number of projects. It became very difficult for instance to do colour-grading and sound work long distance, or navigating the ever-changing Covid-19 travel rules.

Were you able to claim Covid-19 support from the Danish government?
SBS: The government gave grants to films that didn’t have support from the Danish Film Institute (DFI), and it’s quite rare for our films not to have DFI support. Therefore, we couldn’t benefit from that scheme.

I believe that it’s only later in 2021 and in 2022 that we will feel the impact from Covid. It’s harder to get projects off the ground, everything is slower, and research takes longer. Therefore, we’re having less projects in production than we would have in ‘normal’ times.

Could you remind us how your bigger international films are typically financed and produced, and the average budgets for your films?
SBS: For our ambitious international documentaries, as we’re based in Denmark, we start raising funding here, with development support from the DFI - and sometimes from DR, TV2 and SVT. Once we’ve advanced a bit with the shooting, thanks to the development support, we approach public TV stations like DR, TV2, then Nordic partners for co-production. Once we’ve secured some Nordic financing, we turn to the rest of Europe as it’s impossible to finance our films without having either BBC, ARTE, or ZDF. These major pubcasters are able to raise substantial sums - unlike most others, who typically invest smaller amounts, like €5,000-10,000.
Therefore, if you have an ambitious international project that requires filming over a year and a half, and long editing, it’s literally impossible without also having those bigger broadcasters. If we close several pre-sales, we can apply for support from Creative Europe, although realistically, this is only possible with at least 7-8 broadcasters.

With at least two Nordic distributors, you can also apply for Nordisk Film & TV Fond top financing, if you have at least 70% of the budget in place.

Regarding budgets, it varies from DKK 3 million [€400,000] to DKK10 million [€1.3 million], with the average being around DKK4 million [€540,000], but then an animation film like Flee cost DKK23 million [€4m].

Traditional financing models, based on public funding, are being challenged in the era of giant streamers. How does that impact your activities?
SBS: Our traditional financing model is indeed challenged, as public service broadcasters are under pressure in each country for various reasons: the linear TV audience is getting older, while the younger generation is not watching public TV. So public stations are turning to digital to attract the widest possible audience. It seems to be working to some extent. But the pressure on them makes them more cautious, and documentary departments are under pressure to make national programmes, which makes it harder for us who produce international projects.

In the last five years, the broadcasting landscape has changed a lot. Artistically-driven projects, told in a more filmic way, with experimental elements, have a harder time. In Denmark, DRK is now closed so there is currently no substantial platform for those films. Yle used to be a place where they backed experimental films. But what’s happening in Denmark seems to be happening in Finland and to some extent in Norway and Sweden too.

We have the feeling that today, faced with tougher competition, Nordic public broadcasters do come in, but later and later, with less and less money. This uncertain financing situation leaves us in a limbo for a long period, and is detrimental for the projects. Before, we could finance while in development, but for the last 3-4 years we’ve been financing to the very end, until a film’s festival premiere as we don’t get the answers from commissioners until the last minute.

Axel Arnö, SVT Commissioning Editor and Chairman of the EBU Documentary Group believes in public broadcasters staying bold and pooling their resources to create 5 big films a year. What do you think of this idea?
SBS: I do believe in public service TV. Politically, I think it’s crucial. I don’t want to end up in a world where what we see is defined by a few privately-owned channels. It’s wrong. This is why we need public-owned stations that make sure there is diversity, analysis, proper journalism etc. But as an indie producer, if I want to survive, I need public stations to commit at an appropriate time, so that I can approach other funders.

Regarding the ‘5 Big Film’ initiative, I think it’s a good idea that could fast track decision-making. We’ll have to see when it is implemented. I hope it is soon. We really need this.
(See our Axel Arnö interview - CLICK HERE).

What relationships do you have with global VOD players?
SBS: My sense is that they are more open today to combined collaborations, for instance with DR, or TV2. So far, we have only sold them finished films but we would like to collaborate with them too. Once they commit, you can get one deal and do your film, instead of trying to chase multiple funders and wait forever. All producers want that. What I’ve been sceptical about is the ownership issue. Netflix for instance wants to own everything. But for example if they decide three years down the line, after a film has been made, that they don’t want it on their platform any more, then I can’t control the film’s distribution. It’s crucial for us that a film is seen by an audience and makes an impact. If we don’t have a say, whether a film reaches an audience or not, that’s a scary prospect.

Do you believe that revising the existing windowing system, and exclusive distribution deals, would allow films to reach an audience-faster and better?
SBS: There is no simple solution. It might solve the problem of the public broadcaster who might want to strike a non-exclusive deal with a streamer, to show as much content as possible to their audience, but it doesn’t solve the hidden problem of how can a film raise the financing to be made in the first place? Before it was clear. A film would be exclusively in the cinemas, then exclusively on TV, then exclusively on VOD etc. There wasn’t much money for documentary, but there was a multi-territory distribution system that allowed films to get made. Now, we have to find an alternative.

That said, a cinema is still the best place to watch a film, a crucial space for a common shared experience, where a film can get an undivided attention from viewers. If a film has a theatrical release, other platforms can also benefit.

How do you work on the marketing and impact campaigns of your films to make them stand out on the market?
SBS: Impact and marketing are totally different. When we prepare for the world launch of a film, we think of the positioning festival strategy, and together with the sales agent, we work in the traditional way with posters, trailers, social media etc.

The DFI has launched a new audience initiative to help us think the audience from development stage. That’s good. But with docs, there can be other concerns which make it difficult to do marketing early, for example safety concerns.

Impact campaigning means working with organisations, educational/cultural institutions, NGOs, churches etc. It’s a long-term commitment. We often don’t live in a country where the film has been shot. The ground-root work is done by local impact campaigners. Social movements are long-term agents of change, and we have to support them.

What Final Cut for Real films will be released later this year, and what's in development?
SBS: Our films President, Flee, Raising a School Shooter. Elsewhere, He’s my Brother and Our Memory Belongs to Us are on the festival circuit. Flee is coming out in the rest of the world this fall.

Then my colleague Monica [Hellström] and director Simon Lereng Wilmont are working on A House Made of Splinters [working title]. They are nearly ready.

Then I have a film called The Killing of a Journalist by Matt Sarnecki, that I pitched at CPH:DOX. It should come out late 2021-early 2022. We have around 60% of the financing confirmed. That’s the type of project that would benefit from a global distribution on a streamer. It needs to come out in Europe at the same time.

Another project is Of Boys and Men, which was pitched at IDFA. It has three Nordic broadcasters and 70% of its financing in place.

Do you have any fiction project in development or production?
SBS: Anne [Köhncke-Final Cut for Real’s co-owner] and Monica are developing the fiction film Heirloom, by directors Larissa Mansour and Søren Lind. Joshua Oppenheimer [double Oscar-nominated with The Act of Killing and The Look of Silence] is working on his fiction debut with me. It’s a new experience for us and a big project that requires time and care. We need to wait. Monica and I are also co-producers of Tarik Saleh’s next film Boy from Heaven.

Nordisk Film & TV Fond will host another Audiovisual Collaboration industry bridge-building session at Nordisk Panorama. How is important is Nordisk Panorama to you?
SBS: Nordisk Panorama’s Forum is extremely important for us. It is our Nordic stepping stone into the big world. This year my colleague Heidi Elise Christensen will pitch a new project with director Camilla Magid. We rely on this Forum for building the financial foundation for projects, before we bring them to the international market for example at IDFA.