This interview with Axel Arnö, SVT’s long time Commissioning Editor and chairman of the EBU Documentary Export Group, is a follow-up to the Fund’s Audiovisual Collaboration talk at the last CPH:DOX, and a preamble to a Town Hall session at Nordisk Panorama September 19.

At last April’s CPH:DOX Conference “From pre-pandemic flashback to post-pandemic visions of documentary distribution” - SEE STORY - CLICK HERE - held within the Fund’s Audiovisual Collaboration 2021, Arnö, was invited to comment on current challenges in Nordic documentary production and distribution.

Here, he picks up on topics briefly tackled by panellists, such as how to re-think public-based traditional business models and the windowing structure under the era of global streamers.

He also outlines SVT’s documentary strategy, and the European Broadcasting Union (EBU)’s upcoming ‘Big 5’ documentary co-production initiative.

The upcoming Town Hall session at Nordisk Panorama, to be held in Malmö, September 19 (17.00-19.00 CET) will delve deeper into the burning issues tackled at CPH:DOX. Further details about the session will soon be announced.

The interview with Arnö will be followed in the weeks prior to Nordisk Panorama (September 16-21) by talks with Signe Byrge Sørensen, CEO and producer at Final Cut for Real, Denmark, Christian Falch, producer at UpNorth Film, Norway and Ulla Simonen, director at AVEK, Finland.

Interview with Axel Arnö
Firstly, could you briefly outline your responsibilities at SVT?
Axel Arnö: At SVT I deal mainly with international pre-buys and co-productions, and when Swedish filmmakers are looking for prime partners abroad, I try to guide them when they have an international story to tell.

What’s your budget and SVT’s documentary strategy?
AA: It’s hard to give a specific figure, but for acquisitions and co-productions with international partners, we invest in roughly 40 feature docs and current affairs films, representing around 80 hours of non-fiction content a year. We’re not skewed for series, but are investing more in international series and will continue to ramp up our non-fiction series in the future.

SVT is targeting its digital-platform [SVT Play] first, so we use our VOD window first, while linear TV is more for catch up. We still need to fill our grids, but can basically publish anything online.

Our strategy has always been to invest more in Swedish docs (as there are less chances to raise financing for films about Sweden on the international market) and a bit less in international films, but it’s still vital for us as public service broadcaster, to bring the world into Sweden and Sweden to the world. That said, we are a small country and do need co-productions with Nordic and EU partners to make high quality films.

What makes SVT documentaries stand out In the market?
AA: Documentaries play a vital role on SVT and SVT Play, as it’s a prime public service content and no one delivers the type of quality, thought-provoking and news-driven documentaries and that we do. But public broadcasters are all struggling in the new digital era. We have to reinvent ourselves and redefine what PSB docs should be. I believe we should go for European stories, meaningful and relevant topics that affect Swedish citizens. The big streamers want to entertain. That’s fine. We can entertain as well, but do more.

During CPH:DOX, you mentioned that EBU members plan to co-produce 5 big documentaries a year. Could you expand?
AA: EBU has 69 members in 56 countries. We have vital documentary pitching forums where we pitch local ideas and films to each other. Now we’re trying to go beyond that, to develop common ideas, together with major European producers.

To make it simple, our idea is to produce five big co-productions a year amongst 10-15 commissioning partners over a five-year period. The big streamers have the advantage of being a one stop shop. They have the money, commit and that’s it! We have a more complex financing model-between institutes, PSB, and stitching everything together takes a long time. Sometimes it’s a good process as the film develops along the way; other times, it’s a hard and long process for a filmmaker.

So we want to be a fast-track, first with development money, then with production money.

We’re trying to find a workable model for everyone, which is not easy, as some broadcasters are more volatile than others, or have complex decision-making structures.

The first step is to have a workshop for bigger films, taking on ambitious ideas from producers all over Europe. We hope to do this in October.

What type of budget are you looking at for those bigger films?
AA: The standard budget for a European doc of 90 minutes is now over €300,000. So even without pre-buy it’s hard to find the money. If we bring our resources together, we can easily unblock between €200,000-300,000 among us. My dream is to finance five films with budgets of around €250,000-300,000 each. Then if a producer wants to keep some territories, or do an all-investment, that sum can be higher.

Will you have an international distributor to handle global rights outside your territories?
AA: Sure. It can be either of us, handling world rights, or an international distributor.

It’s a similar idea to the Nordic 12 TV drama initiative backed by DR, Yle, NRK, SVT and RÚV…
AA: Yes. It’s the same broad idea, although documentary filmmaking is much more diverse content-wise. I don’t think EBU members can produce 12 films together, perhaps in the future but not right now. Co-producing three to five big films a year would be a success. Together, we’re stronger!

At the CPH:DOX conference, top Danish producer Signe Byrge Sørensen mentioned that the slow public service commissioning process is seriously hurting indie producers. I guess the EBU ‘big film’ initiative would be one step in the right direction…
AA: At SVT we do take a lot of risks by investing in quality and innovation. This is one of our core arguments as public service. We can and will continue to take risks.

In 2016, together with ro*co films, you’ve launched an ‘international buyers coalition’ as an alternative to the streaming Goliaths, and to have more pulling power when acquiring films. How is this going?
AA: We launched this at Sundance 2016 which has become a major platform for docs.

This is an initiative from PSB players to buy finished films together and offer producers access to other types of audiences than global streamers. Our advantage is that we can collaborate with our news department, create events surrounding around the films, work with festivals, do theatrical releases etc.

At the beginning, we managed to secure two films, but I have to say that lately, it’s been very difficult. Even with our common pot, often it’s not enough. Private US equity investors often come aboard very late, and want to have a significant profit. We’re not so interested in that.

If a rights holder is only out for the money, or if a debut director finally gets a break with a Netflix deal, I understand his/her decision. What I don’t like is when Netflix steals our talents that we’ve been nurturing for years, through short films, to 30-minute films and first features.

For you, what are the best nurturing grounds for Nordic talents?
AA: I must say that Nordisk Panorama has been over the years, a key platform for Nordic talents, and it’s a real pity that the Nordic Council has cut its funding. A lot of Nordic filmmakers and producers have started pitching there, and it’s been a very good meeting place for us. Otherwise, Nordic Talents [backed by Nordisk Film & TV Fond] is a great arena.

Talent development is key and talent is the new gold. We have to be aware of it all the time. We are discussing internally at SVT how to boost talent development in Sweden, maybe by transferring production money into development.

We could also be better at having interns and in teaching people to make docs as an art form as well. There is a divide between experimental docs and docs for an audience. We can provide the audience for both documentary genres.

What are your views on the current windowing model and how could it better serve the distribution of documentary films?
AA: It’s a conservative model with theatrical release, then DVD, and last along the line TV. This is all shifting. It’s all about how the audience wants to experience films. Today, when you release a film, it can be available on different platforms, but the tricky question is how do you want to monetise this? And of course, our licence fees are climbing a bit due to the competition.

I think that at SVT, we will more often move away from exclusivity, so that important films can be shown on different platforms at the same time. We just want to show them to our audience.

I have no problem with sometimes sharing Swedish rights with Netflix for example. We’re 10 million people and Netflix has around 1.5-2 million Swedish subscribers. The other 8 million Swedes can watch the same film on SVT. It’s a win-win situation.

Do you feel documentaries could be better promoted to stand out on the competitive global market?
AA: Yes. Today it’s hard to be visible and cut through the buzz. Where you read about docs is limited and changing fast. Before, everyone was reading newspapers. Now the buzz can also come from influencers, social media, Instagram etc. Filmmakers, producers, broadcasters have to work hand in hand from an early stage to set up the appropriate marketing strategy for each film.

Then flexibility is key, not only in terms of storytelling but also in terms of formats. When you make a big budget project, then maybe you can create it as a one-hour feature length, a directors’ cut, a TV series, short clips etc. You need to think of different ways to tell the story. The more you can spread it on different platforms, the better it is.

Is this where public institutes can play a bigger role perhaps…
AA: Maybe. Institutes are mostly supporting theatrical projects, not webs series or TV docs. Documentary filmmaking is about telling stories in an entertaining, important way, whatever the platform.​