First conceived as an extension of her short film Teenland, and preciously known in the industry as Teenage Jesus, Grahtø’s first feature is now a personal expression of existential unease, overtly inspired by Ingmar Bergman’s Persona. 

The film follows researcher and mental illness specialist Viktoria, who arrives at a psychiatric clinic and is asked to treat Jenny, a suicidal patient. The two women gradually connect and form a tight bond. But things are not quite what they seem. 

 In the title roles are Lisa Carlehed, Victoria Carmen Sonne and Trine Dyrholm. 

The film was produced by Amalie Lyngbo Quist and Julie Friis Walenciak of Denmark’s Beo Starling, in coproduction with Finland’s Bufo Film, support from the Danish Film Institute’s New Danish Screen, the Finnish Film Foundation, and Nordisk Film & TV Fond.

Firstly, what does it mean to attend Venice’s Critics Week that selects only seven international debut features?
Marie Grahtø: It feels very special. It’s an honour, but also very important for a film like ours - a first feature and a true arthouse film. Hopefully it will help the film reach a wider audience. 

Your film has evolved drastically from its embryonic storyline pitched at Haugesund in 2015, which was about a teenage girl committed to a psychiatric hospital, who discovers she can cure other patients’ mental disorders with her supernatural powers. Why did the story change so much along the way?
MG: I developed the story over the course of three years and a lot happened during that time. Originally, I was keen to do a youth film - colourful teen uproar. But I believe I just matured a bit and my fascination took a different form. Also, my earlier concept involved CGI, which means a bigger budget, while this film was made for nearly €1m. 

If I’m correct your own experience with psychosis is at the core of the film…
MG: In my last two short films [Teenland and Yolo], I was obsessed with form and had an ironic distance with content. But with this film, I wanted to tell a story that was closer to me. The film is indeed inspired by my own experience with psychosis, using form to create subjective feelings in the audience as well.

One of the essences with psychosis is that time can shift between linear and non-linear, so that past, present and future become arbitrary. Everything can be real, and nothing can be real, which is very frustrating. But this is also true with cinema. I would say that my experience with psychosis has in a way strengthened my film language.

Yes film seems to be the perfect art form for you to navigate between real/unreal, subjective and real time…
MG: It is indeed the perfect art-form to convey psychological experiences that one can have. Also, a psychological ward is very weird. It’s a kind of non-space, a transit area, as you’re not supposed to be there forever. And here again, film as an art form can bring this universe to life. 

One Flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest was a landmark film set in a psychiatric ward. Did you have it mind?
MG: Yes in the sense that I did not want my film to be a critique of the psychiatric system. One Flew over the Cuckoo’s Nest did that brilliantly before so why go that route?. Also, my experience with psychiatry was very different. I didn’t want to go into a more objective study of psychiatry, but to stay in the mind of those suffering. 

From the very start, you make clear that you will explore energy, and the split circuits of ideal and desire within one’s psyche. Are the two women Jenny and Viktoria personifications of those two elements?
MG: Absolutely. The film has quite a classical approach to character development, the way Fight Club uses order vs chaos. But I wanted the film to be Freudian-inspired. I’m very interested in psychoanalysis. I thought it would be interesting to put in the narrative these two forces up against each other in the shape of these two women and see what happens. Jenny is a temptation for Viktoria and that’s a problem for her as she can’t embrace desire. I also wanted to show the fatal consequence if we as human beings, are not able to embrace both sides within ourselves.

Why did you choose to set the film in an exclusively female universe?
MG: Actually. I have ambivalent feelings about this question. I’ve tried to show women first and foremost as human beings. We’re in a time when there isn’t equal representation of both genders and this is frustrating. Equality is not just about fairness but a mental health issue. Those who are not treated equally suffer. But going back to the film, I have never thought of not making it an exclusively female universe. Many films are only with men but people never ask why…

Also, I’ve been inspired by psychoanalysis for many years, and Joseph Breuer [principal frontrunner of psychoanalysis] was actually guided by his patient Anna O towards the use of the ‘talking cure’, and Freud was inspired by this. And without any doubt, the two most prominent psychoanalysts after Freud were Melanie Klein and Anna Freud. This is why I chose to name Trine Dyrholm’s character as Anna Klein, as a tribute to those women. 

The film is therefore a reminder of the key role that women have played in the history of psychoanalysis. 

The similarities with Bergman’s universe, in particular Persona is striking, with the tight close ups, use of light, relationship between a nurse and a patient and theme of duality. Can you explain your use of Bergmanesque themes and filmic approach?
MG: Indeed Persona is a huge inspiration. The very premise of the film - the hiring of an external person to treat a patient - is kind of the same opening as in Persona. I simply wanted to go to the source, make an explicit reference and I told my cinematographer [Catherine Pattinama Coleman:] you should be brave and say ‘hi’ to the past!”

The performances from Victoria Carmen Sonne and Lisa Carlehed are amazing. Did you have both actresses in mind from an early stage? If not how did you cast them and work with each one of them to get them to focus on their inner emotions?
MG: Victoria is an old friend of mine and she was with me along the whole development of the film. We very much created the character of Jenny together.  Lisa Carlehed on the contrary boarded the project only five weeks before the shoot. But I always thought that she had a kind of Isabelle Huppert quality to her expression. She can do so much with so little. I was hugely impressed by Lisa’s acting talent. 

How was your collaboration with cinematographer Catherine Pattinama Coleman? 
MG: I had never worked with her before. We had a magical collaboration and spent 20 days on location, discussing the shot-list. She came up with the idea to use a split focus to visualise the split mind. Catherine also shares with me a passion for Bergman and was thrilled by my vision. We went through all the shots in the film twice, to model the way film language should be. 

In the press book you mention other masters of cinema as major inspirations, including David Lynch and Dario Argento…MG: Yes, when I was struggling internally, I found comfort in watching their films as they kind of mirror the existential quest and weird experiences of being alive.

Ultimately what did you want to convey with the film? 
MG: I wanted to show how the difficulty to live and access the world really feels. The topic of mental illness is still taboo, but we need to talk about it to take away the stigma. 

What’s next?
MG: I’m actually working on two films, but they are in an early stage. What I can say is that they will be quite different as I want to explore new forms of filmmaking.